Planck’s blackbody colors (first layers)
by adrienlucca
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This is a new thing.
For the moment I just did the first 2 layers of paint (depending on the case, Titanium White + Ultramarine Blue, or: Titanium White + Cadmium Yellow light,) – there are 2 left.
In the squares will be the average color (50%/50%) of the color of my background and of the colors of the planckian balckbody locus with temperatures from 4000 K° to 9500 K° – as given by these (approximative) formulae in the CIE UCS 1960 color space:
I choose to make these samples with the same brightness as my backgound, so only the color difference is visible. None of them is neutral grey because I’m working with illuminant D65 (my “white point” is there…,) which is not located on the planckian locus, but slightly blue-grennisher (see below)
The locus in the CIE UCS 1960 color space (after wikipedia)
More than 3/4 of the colors are out of CMYK gamut, if that matters.
what colors? the ones on the excel file I sent by email??
The files you sent by mail:
measures.xls
measures.txt
match up as you said, numbers that match from what little I compared.
These numbers plot the co-ordinates of of the colors in D65, the 3D images in your email “new samples”.
It seems to me the best white point is at D50.
They don’t mean much to me and I don’t understand why they are important. The best I can do is see them as 2D from above and there I would have to approximate the colors position. I don’t want to get into that without knowing the basics of profiles.
The “out of CMYM gamut” refers to the “The locus in the CIE UCS 1960 color space” that you posted which my WACOM Cintiq21UX tablet monitor uses, or says it’s using. Today I looked at my monitor color spaces and decided on either sRGB 1EC61966-2.1 or Adobe RGB (1998). This is an arbitrary decision. I just want my two monitors (Dell and WACOM) close in color to each other. I have too many choices and no time to work on it. Color in light is just too much for me. I have to stay with pigments. I’m lost and have to get back to more solid ground where I know my footing a little more.
I’ll keep watching and reading what you do, every once in a while a light goes on..
No problem.
D50 is usually prefered in the graphic industry, but I prefer D65 – for me it’s close to the light we have here in Belgium / Netherlands.
The white points are only important to know what kind of measures we are talking about… Depending on the light used the colors will react differently. D65 makes Blue more intense than D50, and Yellow a bit Greener…
Comparing painted colors and colors on a monitor will give you headaches … I did that a lot a few years ago – horrible!
Maybe I’ll find a way to transform a digital camera into a precise color-meter, then everybody could have his own precision device.
A
Hello,
I just bought SENNELIER PR122 and a PY150 (indian yellow substitute, from KREMER).
I will make some trials, you would use the PR122 with titanium white or zinc white best to make an opaque paint? As far as I could try, I found my zinc white to be opaque enough so I will try with this first…
And for the PY 150, what would you use it for?
Best,
A
this is the one I bought: http://www.kremer-pigmente.com/en/product.html?info=1193&sorting=model
This is what you got.
Chemical description:Nickel based synthetic organic pigment
Color: yellow, PY 150.12764
I can’t say anything for Kremer Synthetic Indian yellow.
First, Mine is Tartrazine, a water based Azo, not nickel.
I suggested you get it from the color manufacture, Spectrum Color,
http://Spectracolors.com/
not a distributer as Kremer is.
http://www.kremer-pigmente.com/en/search.html?x9f2ac=ca076d889f016d4180f6b3e1c6b4b733&page=search&page_action=query&desc=on&sdesc=on&keywords=tartrazine
This looks the same as mine.
http://www.kremer-pigmente.com/en/dyes-und-vegetable-color-paints/synthetic-dyes–watersoluble/tartrazine-85-94175.html
This looks like my PY150, a brown/side Indian yellow, great for painting but not as clean as PY100.
http://www.kremer-pigmente.com/en/product.html?info=1193&sorting=model
Your’s is not Tartrazine. I know I said OH has a Nickel Indian yellow that is oil based but you are using water based acrylics aren’t you?
You will have to make dilution tests with different media. Nickel won’t dissolve in water. Tartrazine won’t dissolve in oil.
Match your pigment in a dissolvable liquid in a draw-down to these pigments.
http://www.realcolorwheel.com/indianyellow.htm
You have to end up with a light, bright yellow.
I think you are going to have to get Tartrazine PY100.
Thanks Don, I’ll let you know. I have to prepare a course for my students right now, a bit busy.
By the way, any idea what pigment can make such a crazy light blue??
see: http://www.johndaypictures.com/html/P2803.htm
Crazy light blue= First I had to balance the image to get the yellow out of the white paper. The closest pigment in acrylics is a tint of Liquitex Light Blue Violet. The actual pigment color is a tint of ult. blue, a problem being that when you make a tint of ult. blue it goes to the magenta side so you have to add more cyan to balance this effect.
What course do you teach? Where? What grade?
Yeah it could be like you say , I don’t know since I don’t really have experience working like that… I can imagine you can make some beautiful colors by tints… I was thinking that it could be “Ploss Blue” I have some and it’s a quite weird pigment, but super intense-blue and transparent: http://www.kremer-pigmente.com/en/pigments/kremer-made-and-historic-pigments/ploss-blue-10170.html
I will teach color theory and practice to art & design students in this school, starting this year, I make a seminar, it’s an option for them, third year:
http://www.lacambre.be/
http://www.kremer-pigmente.com/en/pigments/kremer-made-and-historic-pigments/ploss-blue-10170.html
Ploss Blue
10170
sky-blue crystals of very brilliant luminosity
Color: blue
(a tint of cyan, made from Copper, notice it turns blue in the shadows, Don)
Chemical Formula: CuCH3COO.H2O
Chemical description: Copper calcium acetate
Suitability: Tempera, Lime / Fresco
I went through Kramer’s pigments and this is their match to your color.
http://www.kremer-pigmente.com/de/pigmente/pigmente-der-moderne/ultramarine/ultramarinblau–hell-45080.html
Ultramarine blue, light
No.: 45080
man-made mineral pigment
sodium aluminum sulpho silicate. Color Index: Pigment Blue 29: 77007th CAS No. 57455-37-5, EINECS (EU): 309-928-3TSCA (USA): uses CAS-No. 57455-37-5 Color: blue, PB 29.77007 Solubility in water: insoluble Suitability: oil, acrylic, tempera, Watercolor / Gouache, Lime / Fresco
It’s like I said, a tint of ult blue.
ah you think so… ok
I actually have this one
thanks
If you have contact with Kramer.. would you suggest they call their Heliogen Blue, called “Primary Blue” also Cyan? Cyan is the primary color, primary blue is a poor choice of word description.
http://www.kremer-pigmente.com/de/pigmente/heliogen-blau-23050.html
yeah you’re probably right, it’s a wrong name…
I was in contact with him for a project but it short-ended because I had no help from the person I wanted to work with, then my father died… it was a bit of a mess…
I’ll tell him later
best
Ah btw I bought the PR122 SENNELIER and figured out I had a KREMER quite similar, their “hostaperm rosa” http://www.kremer-pigmente.com/de/pigmente/pigmente-der-moderne/organische-pigmente/hostaperm-rosa-e-23152.html
It’s also a PR122 and they look quite the same!
You actually convinced me to check on the side of organic pigments, I forgot I ordered some a while ago… but never used them :)
A
u should check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugcvvm2lhPk&feature=plcp
When they’ll have magenta, I think you’ll like it, no??
Magenta PR122, you cant tell from the dry, you have to test it in water and oil. I have one brand that turned brown but still called it PR122. I put the images on my site but I would have to search for it. Another tried to “fix” a PV19 into PR122. Do a draw-down in water and post it along with a white page and do the same for the Nickel based PY150 ( don’t think you will get a bright yellow, it may not even dissolve well in water).
understand what u say, I will not say more until I make tests. Happy to have the sennelier PR122 anyway!
I watched the video, the transparent yellow is brown side and didn’t leave a clean yellow. They called the cyan Thalo blue but the name on their chart says Heliogen Blue, They can call it what they want, they invented it and have the ®. The descriptive name that unites all the brand name is Cyan. Call it anything you want but include the word “Cyan”. Phthalocyanine is the chemical name. When I first with my color wheel the only group that called it cyan were the printers. Now it’s a common name:) (Magenta’s name is used now also, the only name in the beginning was Pink.) There was no magenta in their video and I couldn’t read the labels. (There are so many on the net saying PV19 is magenta it’s sad, try making a good blue from PV19, won’t happen. I think they are the same people that are mad because I got the manufactures to call transparent yellow Indian yellow. It’s too late now, the name is in-there.
I told you the story of how O.H. was the only company that had Indian yellow, it was in their books since 1900 but they didn’t sell it. The first batch I got was from an established fresco restorer in Florence called Zecchi. The pigment is called Giallo Indiano sost. It is a nickel complex Brown/side just like yours from Kremer. http://www.realcolorwheel.com/frescosupplies.htm
Here are the colors tested in fresco.
http://www.realcolorwheel.com/fresco.htm
Like I said, don’t trust the manufactures of brand name colors. Sennelier has a terrible Indian yellow but a great Magenta PR122. Tartrazine is what you want.
pity colors are not the good ones, because the way pigments disperse in water is just amazing….
I know Zecchi too!
Checked your charts, it’s nice you tried all that,
talk later,
A
You have to grind cyan down in a little water before adding more water when you make paint. Tartrazine is quick.